Streaming has conquered music listening, yet vinyl, CD and cassette sales are still rising.
As I ponder how many copies of my new album to produce (and conscious of the environmental impact), I’m wondering… do you buy physical music? Where and in what format? Or have you moved on like it’s all VHS?
I haven't bought a CD or vinyl recently. I am working on an NFT project where I am going to sell NFTs of a new project called Pi. I am composing a piece of music for guitar which is very geeky. Every note or chord is tied to the sequential values of Pi. If I put it on Spotify, I would get fractions of a cent per play.
If I go to a gig and I like the artist, I will buy something from their merch table. If it is a CD, I would ask them to sign it, having spoken with and developed at least a superficial relationship with them. If I buy there I know that the majority of the revenue will go to them.
Thanks, Jake. I'm not worried about great, definitely ambitious as I have many other commitments, but it's not tie bound. I do really like what I have so far, it grows on you. As with most songwriting and composition, the journey is as important as completing it, and of course in this case it will never be completed which is part of the magic :)
1) The overwhelming message is one of passion for music and supporting artists. For example, lots of people here take pride in buying from Bandcamp because they know that more money goes to the artist. Everyone seems to know that streaming companies pay terribly.
2) CDs and vinyl are still a huge part of our lives, maybe a little bigger than I realised. An emphatic response here! It's a chance to hold something, explore the artwork and the credits, get an immersive experience beyond screens.
3) It doesn't have to be either / or. There were lots of stories about selectively buy physical copies of things but also listening through streaming or downloads as well (often begrudgingly!?).
4) Some people have moved away from physical, or buy but don't listen, and that's totally cool too.
Thanks so much to everyone for their contributions, I learned a lot.
Funny how people can do exactly the same thing with streaming and the music would sound about the same, but it's just harder to create that same immersive experience. The context is all different. Thanks Alex!
I grew up working in record stores and had a three album a week habit for years. Slowly moved to CD's for ability to rip and burn mixes for friends. Now with a family I've bough turntables for all of my teen daughters and they are all on the hunt for new and used vinyl! Great fun! They also use the 'thou shall not be named' streaming service...but I have not had the heart to go there yet. I love the physical objects, the collection, the art, the liner notes...and also love that with a cd or record purchase the money goes to the artists and an independent retailer!
Buying them turntables is a genius idea! They'll have that connection forever now, even if they stream forever too. Also reminded me of some great memories of my dad sharing vinyl with me, giving me lectures on the music as it played!
I'm often holding up the merch line writing some absolute nonsense in a CD. All part of the fun for me too. Let's hope that famously wonky cupboard holds up a few more years!
Dear Jake, ALL my music is on "hard copy" I have bakelite, vinyl, cassette tape & CD, I may even still have the odd 8 track in my mum's attic. I also have some VHS eg "Eddie Walker Live at the Albert Hole", sending hugs from Glasgow & Howwood, Joyce xxx
Hi Jake. I love vinyl but sadly sold much of mine years ago simply due to lack of space for em. I've been buying cds ever since and dislike download only releases cos I like to see the artwork and inlays plus I actually like the physicality of actually putting an album on. So please keep releasing your stuff on cds!
Great thoughts shared here, Jake, and they overwhelmingly show that your fans recognise the need to support artists (in whatever physical/ digital form of their choice).
The support is the important thing. Unlike the cultural stereotype, artists don't wear berets, wait for 'a muse' to alight, nor do they have a different car for each day of the week. It's graft, like any other job, and it's really heartening to see the support that you have.
I'm an old git of 58 summers (and 59 winters). I remember the breathless excitement of queueing round the block on release day for a new album, then lying on my bed and scrutinising every word of the album notes whilst listening over and over. Those days may be largely gone, as are things to play them on.....but have we really lost anything?
After years of writing songs for and with others, producing and playing on albums for others, I've finally made my own. Wierdly, I've just seen this thread minutes after taking delivery of a short run of my new CDs ( 'Smell The Glove is here!'), ahead of a tour I start at the end of the month. I peeled the shrink wrap off the first copy and felt a mix of pride and guilt at the plastic I was adding to the already suffocating mountain. I wondered what it would look like on vinyl (adding yet more plastic to the suffocating mountain). I still feel pride, I'm only human. I've now got something to show for it - besides, I might even make something back on tour towards my (too large) ££ layout!
Other things crossed my mind as I read through the album notes, looking for the inevitable catastrophic mis-spelling of the drummer's name.
In digital form, only my name appears, but this album was truly was a group effort. As a long time back room boy, I was glad to see 'the team' in print. Aside from lyrics, album notes are a permanent awards ceremony of acknowledgements that have (hopefully) been thought through - with the added bonus of no tears.
The other advantages of the physical form are (already stated), the album as an entire work with flow. Whatever! The main advantage of physical is this, though:- you have to pay in. Take the 'product' out , put it into/onto a machine and actually be there to listen to it. Full attention paid in, and hopefully enjoyment paid out.
Apologies for the essay chaps, I'm kinda emotional. Despite all of this, what really matters is you good people doing the right Bandcamp/ direct purchase thing. In whatever form. Thank you.
Ach, artists, eh? Can't live with 'em, can't live with 'em....
As expected, you cut through to the truth of this Cal!
People are showing their support for artists regardless of the medium.
Thrilled that you've made a record, can't wait to hear it.
Also love your point about how physical conveys so much more of the 'team effort' than digital. I think now you can click a few buttons and find out who the producer was on streaming services. Lyrics too. But it's mostly buried.
You have to pay in - so true.
When it's free entry you're so much less likely to pay attention, chat to your mates at the bar. Songs get skipped if they don't grab us in 5 seconds and we miss out on the return on investment of our attention.
Many times I've finally 'got' an album after multiple listens. The reward for that can be huge.
Yes Jake, as a collector I buy the physical medium (CD, LP, Single or even an odd tape - even though nothing to play those on nowadays but if only available in that format and a download have still bought) so would definitely - though of course all your CDs I've bought are now in Beth's collection!
Ha ha. You're not wrong there Jake, and have a good few releases in both formats (and even the same vinyl in various 'versions', colours, limited). To me it's about supporting the artist and collecting (which Beth's already claimed as her primary inheritance ;-)
I love this Ben, thank you. Do you enjoy owning them as objects or not so much? It does make me wonder, if what you want is to support an artist maybe artists should be finding a new way for you to do that with something you love / will use?
In my late sixties now and I love lots of different types of music.
It kind of depends which music I am wanting to buy. So I enjoy listening to new music - and for that I use Amazing Tunes, Bandcamp, Tom Robinson podcasts etc and if I want to buy it then Bandcamp first and Itunes if not available elsewhere.
But then also I am 'rebuilding' my vinyl collection - a mixture of some I used to have 50 years ago, some my Mum and Dad used to have, some I remember but never had [so anything from Trees, It's a Beautiful Day to Jussi Bjorling], and some new stuff like Bon Iver, and St Martiins. I tend to get most of the vinyl from charity shops so you'll have to tell me how that feeds into the environmental debate.
For 'The Manual' it was Bandcamp, but then I also wanted to buy a copy for a friend so I did the CD option for that. A few years ago I was worried about 'losing' my downloads so I put some of them on CDs but see now that that isn't environmentally friendly.
I totally get that quest to create a tangible collection. You can look at it, feel it, a little bit of certainty in an uncertain world. I love finding vinyl in charity shops too! it's a low-risk chance to discover something amazing and you never quite know what you'll find. Though always a Barry Manillow there!
Thanks for supporting me and sharing albums with friends. I really appreciate that. And glad you look out for new music. It's so easy to stop doing that.
I think it’s a generational thing Jake. The majority of Generation X and some Millennials like physical stuff. Seeing artwork, reading lyrics and hearing vinyl ( often on sound systems from Richard Sounds ) 😁.
In comparison the Generation Z and Alphas live far more in the digital world and prefer to listen via a streaming platform and buy through downloads. I know this is a generalisation comment but I think that if you want to target all audiences you have to cater for all chap.
Personally I love to see artwork and lyrics but think that the digital route has to be the way forward for our planet. When selling your album or ep on line could it come in a folder with artwork, lyrics and your thoughts behind the tracks maybe? This could cost a bit extra but I would pay for that extra info and personal touch.
We each build our own connections with music. There are actually a million ways to listen to it: on vinyl, Cd, streaming yes, but also in a nightclub, sharing headphones with someone on the bus home, live music in all its forms etc...
Your point as I see it is:
You have the music. Then you have a listener. It's amazing when music reaches a listener and make a meaningful connection. How it gets there is secondary? The more we can make it available the more chances a connection will be made.
I occasionally buy CDs still, mostly for my favourite artists releasing new music, but I rarely play them (don’t have the means here at the moment anyway).
I don’t think I’ll ever stop buying CDs entirely- old collecting habits die hard and I love leafing through the liner notes, but streaming really opened up my world. I listen to much more music, and more different kinds of music, than I ever did.
There is something special about the way vinyl sounds that you just can’t describe. If there’s something I like and it’s on vinyl, I try to buy it. Whether it’s an older scratchy, popping record from days gone by or a fresh pressing, it always puts a smile on my face and a tap in my step. CDs are also something that keeps that nostalgia alive, although I rarely buy them (unless they are to support local artists). While there’s convenience in streaming, it lacks a certain personal experience somehow. It feels ‘too easy’ all too often.
I’d love to hear a JM album on wax. Definitely not the first (or last) time I’ll put that wish into the universe
Some people talk about vinyl like they talk about their first love, like there's something there almost beyond the realm of understanding. Thrilled that you've found that. it's beautiful.
As I said in reply to someone below, would love to get all my albums on vinyl. The main things stopping me are:
1) not knowing how much demand there actually is (fear of losing a bunch of money I need for other things).
2) the work it takes to lay out the artwork in a way that meets my standards. The audio too of course.
3) the upfront cost.
When I do it, it'll be because I've found solutions to those three things.
I used to buy at least a CD a week for donkey’s years but confess to having bought very few in recent years- mostly from artists directly at gigs (like from your good self in Durham along with a famously loss-making teatowel of course). I have kind of weaned myself off the need to own the physical items, and whilst I have my reservations about Spotify and other streaming corporate giants, I do love the way you can go down rabbit holes of “if you like this, try this too” and discover really good stuff new to you that there’s no way you’d have found otherwise.
The "if you like this, try this too" is a huge one.
I've had 7.5 million listens of Ghostess on Soundcloud. Most of those people would never have heard it without that idea.
Lots more changes to come in the future I think, what matters is that magic connection between music and listener. Can we find ways to maintain / nurture that?
Nope. Far too inaccessible. I will buy digital versions from Bandcamp etc to support artists, but if they haven't also released them on streaming platforms they'll get listened to once and then abandoned; the lack of convenience via streaming drives them to never become regular listening.
I hear that Alex, and love the honesty. You seem to be in a minority here, but a majority most other places. As much as I love physical, I'd be a bit lost without being able to stream too. Choosing a song anywhere at any time. Listening on one device and being reminded of it on another... asking for anything on a smart speaker. It's still got some big flaws though I think, plenty more versions of the idea to come.
I still buy albums and singles rather than stream. I have decided to do this more recently as I realised I was ripping the music and exclusively playing it from a device rather than a CD player. The thing I miss is having the sleeve notes to hand. Could you provide a file with the sleeve notes if you don’t already?
Like many others here, I tend to like to own things physically as well, be that CDs, blu rays, video games, etc. I do stream a lot of content as well, but my preference is usually to try and (quite selectively) own copies of the media I really enjoy, and preferably in a way in which I can put it on the shelf, though I do buy digital music from Bandcamp and the like too.
There are many pros to owning it, not least of which is some of the stuff I listen to simply isn't on streaming services, or has been in the past, and then got removed due to licensing etc, and that makes me conscious of it. It's nice to know I'll still listen to stuff I like in decades to come, without a reliance on a third party.
If it's an artist I'm unlikely to see live, I'll tend to buy from Amazon as they often give you the disc as well as adding the album to your Amazon Music account, giving the best of both worlds. But if I am planning to see the band live, I tend to hold off buying that physical until the gig. So I'll tend to listen to the album through other means if I've got a gig booked, and then try to buy the album direct from the band, as I know the percentage the band themselves get can be massively different in some cases.
Love how much thought goes into this Cormac. What is it worth to keep that connection with the music we love, priceless.
There are some records / songs that if faced with being threatened with them being wiped off the face of the earth unless I paid some enormous sum I would immediately empty my (admittedly modest) account. Isn't that strange considering I can listen to them for £0.0006 a pop?
I think sometimes part of it is about supporting a band as well, or having something that doesn't feel quite so disposable. I could have listened to the latest Tool album for a fraction of a percent of a £3.99 a month Amazon Music subscription (your £0.0006 figure is probably about right), but instead I spent out almost £80 on their latest CD. That's a fairly extreme example, but I don't have any regrets about having something really collectable from a band I love sat on my shelf. In another example closer to the topic, my wife and I each have a copy of that limited run CD you did where you hand drew different artwork for each and every one of 125 discs a decade or so ago. We love those and have taken great care of them. Granted, most examples aren't that extreme, but I somehow also place more value on a fairly bog standard £12 disc as well, over spending the equivalent on a bunch of MP3s that sit on my hard drive. Somehow those MP3s feel like something I could have feasibly streamed for almost free, or (cough, cough) downloaded from less savoury sources completely free, but professionally manufactured physical media is something of quality, which can't just be streamed or pirated, but has a visceral quality to it which many people value.
Neil Young a case in point here of course now - if you're a Spotify user as I am (though as have about 6 of his CDs and 1 vinyl still able to listen to my favourites :-)
I always had records from when I was old enough to afford them. Love them. Was a very late adopter of CDs (like about '96!). Then shops stopped selling them. I remember Kiss From a Rose.. that I had to order.. being the last one I walked into a record shop for. The 90s saw a flooding of CDs.. what with all that britpop... but for the last 10 years or so, it's never been easier to buy vinyl again.. and it's always my preferred way to listen to a record.
I think it's neat... the old albums... designed as two sides... something melodic or poignant to finish side 1.. then you're back to upbeat for the start of side 2. Where do you put the best tracks? How every artist treated this problem, was something they had to think about.. and I think that partially disappeared with CDs.. and potentially completely now with streaming and playlists.
Short answer.. If it's a great album.. then I'd love to have it on vinyl. I just love taking the thing out of a sleeve, the whole process.. the large image on the cover.. having to get of your bum to flip the thing (but then I'm a generation that was forever getting up and down to change the tv channel because we didn't have a remote... so I don't mind the intrusion ).
It would be great if you make a vinyl record and I would definitely buy. Have to be signed of course though! :0).
side anecdote... actually bought my first CASSETTE TAPE in decades last year! Came as a bundle with an LP and a CD when Del Amitri released their first album in 20 years..... No regrets....
It's not quite the same sense of wonder running your fingers over a USB stick now, is it? I love that I can play the same albums to my daughter I listened to with my Granny - the exact same physical media from 45 years ago... All Aboard! (A probably K-tel collection of children's classics) a Disney record, that has pictures from the films the songs come from.. but also Oliver!, Sound of Music, My Fair Lady. We even watched Calamity Jane.. and then I went and bought the vinyl of that on Discogs.. I've put that on so much for her, but glad to see her learning the words just like her Dad used to.... :0).
I hope you dig into your Mum & Dad's collection to find some gems to play your daughter... ! Mind you.. she's probably playing the guitar already..... ;0)
I’m a big fan of CDs but only if it’s the full works. I’m talking beautiful art, lyric booklet, limited edition, Matt finish cardboard, Polaroid from the studio session … not asking for much ;)
Bandcamps my favourite place to shop.
Appreciate your consideration of the environment in this :) no shrink wrapping would be ideal
Could you do a pre-order/kickstarter to help you make the right quantities?
Also yes... it would be amazing to have magic future vision and know how many copies you will sell before you press up. I'm generally cautious with numbers, always better to re-press cos you've sold out than be left with a million boxes no one wants!
I still buy cds, there are particular artists I like to have on cd (you are one of them) BUT I rarely listen to cds. I mostly listen to music on my Alexa or phone in the car.
I get it Paula. Streaming is so convenient, and will only get more so for lots of people. Partly because they know the more convenient they make it the more money they can make out of us! I think listening to CDs will require more of a conscious effort as time goes on. Maybe that could be part of the reward too?
Yep, I'll buy vinyl of albums that are particularly important to me or artists that I especially want to support (was looking forward to yours until the everything happened, obv). Bandcamp's been good for the latter because – presumably the artist can choose to? – offer the digital files along with the physical purchase, so I get my practical listening option along with the performative one. The only time I've bought a CD in the last 10+ years was because that was the easiest way to preorder the digital album.
Aside from Bandcamp I've bought vinyl at gigs, off eBay, and from honest-to-goodness real life record stores, although weirdly those have nearly all been in the US or Canada.
Haha thank you very much, although I'm mostly just doing what I can to make reparations for a studenthood of rife piracy.
I just remembered that Wheatus used to tour with a novelty USB stick (http://twitpic.com/6i7gmk) that was loaded with their entire back catalogue – the perfect synthesis of wanting something physical but needing something digital.
I buy at least one vinyl album a month if it’s an artist I really enjoy or if it’s a collectible addition to my collection. I’ve brought and collected vinyl for over 30 years. Normally I stream music via Spotify. Don’t buy cassettes as I don’t have a player. Sold or donated my CDs after burning to iTunes.
This is all helping me realise that it's not really about physical vs digital. We can enjoy all these different routes to the same thing, Spotify for the journey home, vinyl for the comfy chair, it's all good.
Never buy physical music. I kinda get vinyl for the collectibility. Don’t really get that with cds. Think it’s important to be honest given your making stuff.
I buy CDs where I like the artist (ie, yes in this case!), I still love CDs. I only stream where the music doesn’t really mean anything to me as I find it a soulless medium where you forget the music when it ticks off your dashboard whereas I revisit CDs year on year as they are in front of me, often rewarding memories.
It's so interesting how you see it as soulless. I do know what you mean. It encourages distraction, and the payment model makes each song seem disposable. Yet the music listening experience could be so similar if we're able to tune into that.
I've had some amazing moments discovering new music I now love on Spotify where I would maybe otherwise never heard it.
I agree, it definitely has its uses - I use streaming to listen to new artists, other artists I would also not necessarily always gravitate too when mood takes me or new releases but also as a way to hear singles from favourite artists prior to album release. BUT and it may just be me…streaming makes me forget songs quicker than the physical medium which I pick up and revisit. And like Graham below, I increasingly buy CDs direct from artists so that they receive the money but also to encourage that live experience we have all so sorely missed.
I only buy cds nowadays but also like to stream from Spotify. I would like to buy direct from artists especially those that could do with the support in the hope that more money goes directly to the artist. Ideally I would like to buy a new cd prior to seeing the artist play live. Looking forward to new cd and gigs.
I also buy CDs at gigs especially artists I haven't seen before. And vinyl if they have it. Feel bad if I then have to buy from a shop but do try and support independents
Graham you legend, buying direct is a huge way to support artists. Is the buying the new cd prior to a live show about knowing the songs in advance? I get that!
I prefer to buy physical music (CD). You listen in the order the artist intended and can read about who the musicians are and lyrics etc. This I admit means I listen less as it depends what equipment I have set up if any, so the car is one place I can hear and sing along to your music. X
The equipment is a big one I think. They don't make cars with CD players any more, it won't be long before it's rare. People will need the equipment in a room at home. Maybe that's part of the fun?
That would be a shame. They’ll be back though just like vinyl, so I won’t be getting rid. To me the important thing is the credits - I don’t know how much info you get now with streaming but it’s important to me. If you need decent speakers to listen to streamed music then you may as well have a CD player attached, as well as a turntable. I think streaming will kill off the album format as we know it - I don’t know if musicians would prefer to release a constant stream of tracks one by one or still have the excitement and fanfare of an album release?
I got chatting to you recently about vinyl in Gloucester! So I believe the right kind of 12" album is special, worth buying and keeping to play; especially double albums ie four sides of a single album, with a long album of 16+ tracks being the most appealing format to me. Niche artists have signed their own vinyl I own which makes it special and different to just simply streaming those same songs. Coloured vinyl is a gimmick but if a limited edition then why not? Posters included are always a bonus too of course and another example of added value.
This was part of the thinking for hardback book-binding The Manual with lots of printed pages. Go big to make something special! Thanks Tom and was lovely to chat to you in Gloucester.
I buy CD’s in general and old vinyl (non-new release unless it’s been remastered). I try not to use Amazon or big box retailers when I can. I typically try to purchase at my indie store which is pretty large here in LA (Amoeba Records).
New records by current artist. I guess it’s a bit involved. I’ve never bought a new release from a current artist on vinyl. All the vinyl I’ve purchased has been something of a calculated purchase. I spend a lot of time in my car (gigs, picking the wife up, etc). Vinyl purchases tend to be about knowing I’m going to want to listen to something at home. Vinyl costs more (both monetarily and via specific time). I can take a chance on a new album with a CD purchase. I’ve got a history of buying albums based off of very little knowledge but gut feeling but vinyl is in that higher tier of purchasing because of the cost. Just about every vinyl I own I cherish both it and the listen of it whereas I have some CD’s I’ve literally forgotten about.
I don’t tend to go the streaming route 1) because I know what it means to support an artist, 2) I appreciate the actual ownership of a thing and 3) I love the whole production of the product (pics,liner notes, etc).
"Vinyl costs more (both monetarily and via specific time)" - this is so true.
Sometimes we enjoy something more when we've paid more for it. Like when people enjoy a gig more if they've paid to get in. If it's free they might not bother listening the same way or just talk to their mates instead.
You nailed it. I bought The Manual the only way I could after hearing “Watch Yourself” on a blog. Full price with UK shipping to the States was the only way. Worth it, it’s still on rotation quite often and it’s one of my go to’s when I want share something I know people most likely haven’t heard yet.
I treat myself and buy vinyl new and second hand probably at the same rate I did when it was the only option. And I love it. But also love the convenience of streaming. And pick up CDs at charity shops.
Love that Caroline. New vinyl can be expensive, so I get the treat part. I guess we can make space in life for all kinds of formats. It's all a chance to connect with music we love.
I like having a collection but it’s more about enjoying the process of putting a record (or CD). It’s less instant than streaming it from my phone and feels indulgent. A bit like grinding coffee beans. The extra effort is rewarding.
I haven't bought a CD or vinyl recently. I am working on an NFT project where I am going to sell NFTs of a new project called Pi. I am composing a piece of music for guitar which is very geeky. Every note or chord is tied to the sequential values of Pi. If I put it on Spotify, I would get fractions of a cent per play.
If I go to a gig and I like the artist, I will buy something from their merch table. If it is a CD, I would ask them to sign it, having spoken with and developed at least a superficial relationship with them. If I buy there I know that the majority of the revenue will go to them.
That is ambitous! But the world needs original ideas. Can it be great even without knowing about the concept? Would be amazing if so. Good luck!
Thanks, Jake. I'm not worried about great, definitely ambitious as I have many other commitments, but it's not tie bound. I do really like what I have so far, it grows on you. As with most songwriting and composition, the journey is as important as completing it, and of course in this case it will never be completed which is part of the magic :)
Hi Jake, could I have a cd of your new album if that is at all possible. Love the new track - made my day to hear it. Blessings, Tracey. X
I want a CD of your new music
Then you shall have one!
1) The overwhelming message is one of passion for music and supporting artists. For example, lots of people here take pride in buying from Bandcamp because they know that more money goes to the artist. Everyone seems to know that streaming companies pay terribly.
2) CDs and vinyl are still a huge part of our lives, maybe a little bigger than I realised. An emphatic response here! It's a chance to hold something, explore the artwork and the credits, get an immersive experience beyond screens.
3) It doesn't have to be either / or. There were lots of stories about selectively buy physical copies of things but also listening through streaming or downloads as well (often begrudgingly!?).
4) Some people have moved away from physical, or buy but don't listen, and that's totally cool too.
Thanks so much to everyone for their contributions, I learned a lot.
New music coming next week!
Still buy CDs, I download digtal music and I buy vinyl. All in all, if you put it on vinyl, I will buy it :)
Same here :-)
Brilliant to know Nick! I'm definitely hoping to get some vinyl out in the next year or two.
Yes yes yes. Play them in the car. I like that you can sink into an album and get to know all the chapters.
Funny how people can do exactly the same thing with streaming and the music would sound about the same, but it's just harder to create that same immersive experience. The context is all different. Thanks Alex!
I grew up working in record stores and had a three album a week habit for years. Slowly moved to CD's for ability to rip and burn mixes for friends. Now with a family I've bough turntables for all of my teen daughters and they are all on the hunt for new and used vinyl! Great fun! They also use the 'thou shall not be named' streaming service...but I have not had the heart to go there yet. I love the physical objects, the collection, the art, the liner notes...and also love that with a cd or record purchase the money goes to the artists and an independent retailer!
Buying them turntables is a genius idea! They'll have that connection forever now, even if they stream forever too. Also reminded me of some great memories of my dad sharing vinyl with me, giving me lectures on the music as it played!
I do love a shiny compact disc although, to be fair, I only normally listen to them in the car as Alexa has taken over my house.
They are all proudly stored in Steve's Famously Wonky Homemade CD Cupboard...
I have bought a couple of cds directly which came with some wonderful words from yourself written on the inside rather than the usual signature.
For that reason I will always buy the physical medium from you as you seem to genuinely care about your listeners.
I'm often holding up the merch line writing some absolute nonsense in a CD. All part of the fun for me too. Let's hope that famously wonky cupboard holds up a few more years!
I selectively purchase vinyl and of course your album would definitely be one of them! I use Apple for day to day listening though
I'm hearing that story a lot! We use streaming for convenience and vinyl for things we really love. Your family are amazing Guy, hope you're all well.
Dear Jake, ALL my music is on "hard copy" I have bakelite, vinyl, cassette tape & CD, I may even still have the odd 8 track in my mum's attic. I also have some VHS eg "Eddie Walker Live at the Albert Hole", sending hugs from Glasgow & Howwood, Joyce xxx
Hoping to come back there this year Joyce!!
That would be fab xxx
Hi Jake. I love vinyl but sadly sold much of mine years ago simply due to lack of space for em. I've been buying cds ever since and dislike download only releases cos I like to see the artwork and inlays plus I actually like the physicality of actually putting an album on. So please keep releasing your stuff on cds!
Aye aye Jonathan, loud and clear! thanks for sharing that.
Great thoughts shared here, Jake, and they overwhelmingly show that your fans recognise the need to support artists (in whatever physical/ digital form of their choice).
The support is the important thing. Unlike the cultural stereotype, artists don't wear berets, wait for 'a muse' to alight, nor do they have a different car for each day of the week. It's graft, like any other job, and it's really heartening to see the support that you have.
I'm an old git of 58 summers (and 59 winters). I remember the breathless excitement of queueing round the block on release day for a new album, then lying on my bed and scrutinising every word of the album notes whilst listening over and over. Those days may be largely gone, as are things to play them on.....but have we really lost anything?
After years of writing songs for and with others, producing and playing on albums for others, I've finally made my own. Wierdly, I've just seen this thread minutes after taking delivery of a short run of my new CDs ( 'Smell The Glove is here!'), ahead of a tour I start at the end of the month. I peeled the shrink wrap off the first copy and felt a mix of pride and guilt at the plastic I was adding to the already suffocating mountain. I wondered what it would look like on vinyl (adding yet more plastic to the suffocating mountain). I still feel pride, I'm only human. I've now got something to show for it - besides, I might even make something back on tour towards my (too large) ££ layout!
Other things crossed my mind as I read through the album notes, looking for the inevitable catastrophic mis-spelling of the drummer's name.
In digital form, only my name appears, but this album was truly was a group effort. As a long time back room boy, I was glad to see 'the team' in print. Aside from lyrics, album notes are a permanent awards ceremony of acknowledgements that have (hopefully) been thought through - with the added bonus of no tears.
The other advantages of the physical form are (already stated), the album as an entire work with flow. Whatever! The main advantage of physical is this, though:- you have to pay in. Take the 'product' out , put it into/onto a machine and actually be there to listen to it. Full attention paid in, and hopefully enjoyment paid out.
Apologies for the essay chaps, I'm kinda emotional. Despite all of this, what really matters is you good people doing the right Bandcamp/ direct purchase thing. In whatever form. Thank you.
Ach, artists, eh? Can't live with 'em, can't live with 'em....
As expected, you cut through to the truth of this Cal!
People are showing their support for artists regardless of the medium.
Thrilled that you've made a record, can't wait to hear it.
Also love your point about how physical conveys so much more of the 'team effort' than digital. I think now you can click a few buttons and find out who the producer was on streaming services. Lyrics too. But it's mostly buried.
You have to pay in - so true.
When it's free entry you're so much less likely to pay attention, chat to your mates at the bar. Songs get skipped if they don't grab us in 5 seconds and we miss out on the return on investment of our attention.
Many times I've finally 'got' an album after multiple listens. The reward for that can be huge.
Yes Jake, as a collector I buy the physical medium (CD, LP, Single or even an odd tape - even though nothing to play those on nowadays but if only available in that format and a download have still bought) so would definitely - though of course all your CDs I've bought are now in Beth's collection!
one definite advantage of physical for me is that your daughter can steal the record and then you have to buy another one!
Ha ha. You're not wrong there Jake, and have a good few releases in both formats (and even the same vinyl in various 'versions', colours, limited). To me it's about supporting the artist and collecting (which Beth's already claimed as her primary inheritance ;-)
Ben, my position exactly! But always try and buy direct from new artists or those I have followed for many year’s…..like Mr Morley!
I buy CDs direct from artists I love to support them. But pretty much listen via Spotify…
I love this Ben, thank you. Do you enjoy owning them as objects or not so much? It does make me wonder, if what you want is to support an artist maybe artists should be finding a new way for you to do that with something you love / will use?
Yes still love them! How would you sign it if we came to your concert otherwise!
Guess I just sign your phone screen??
Yes, I still buy CDs! Probably more than I should... ;-)
That's the spirit Andreas!!
In my late sixties now and I love lots of different types of music.
It kind of depends which music I am wanting to buy. So I enjoy listening to new music - and for that I use Amazing Tunes, Bandcamp, Tom Robinson podcasts etc and if I want to buy it then Bandcamp first and Itunes if not available elsewhere.
But then also I am 'rebuilding' my vinyl collection - a mixture of some I used to have 50 years ago, some my Mum and Dad used to have, some I remember but never had [so anything from Trees, It's a Beautiful Day to Jussi Bjorling], and some new stuff like Bon Iver, and St Martiins. I tend to get most of the vinyl from charity shops so you'll have to tell me how that feeds into the environmental debate.
For 'The Manual' it was Bandcamp, but then I also wanted to buy a copy for a friend so I did the CD option for that. A few years ago I was worried about 'losing' my downloads so I put some of them on CDs but see now that that isn't environmentally friendly.
Sort of horses for course I guess.
I totally get that quest to create a tangible collection. You can look at it, feel it, a little bit of certainty in an uncertain world. I love finding vinyl in charity shops too! it's a low-risk chance to discover something amazing and you never quite know what you'll find. Though always a Barry Manillow there!
Thanks for supporting me and sharing albums with friends. I really appreciate that. And glad you look out for new music. It's so easy to stop doing that.
I think it’s a generational thing Jake. The majority of Generation X and some Millennials like physical stuff. Seeing artwork, reading lyrics and hearing vinyl ( often on sound systems from Richard Sounds ) 😁.
In comparison the Generation Z and Alphas live far more in the digital world and prefer to listen via a streaming platform and buy through downloads. I know this is a generalisation comment but I think that if you want to target all audiences you have to cater for all chap.
Personally I love to see artwork and lyrics but think that the digital route has to be the way forward for our planet. When selling your album or ep on line could it come in a folder with artwork, lyrics and your thoughts behind the tracks maybe? This could cost a bit extra but I would pay for that extra info and personal touch.
Lol "Hello, I'm Richard Sounds"
Spot on though Keith. 100%.
We each build our own connections with music. There are actually a million ways to listen to it: on vinyl, Cd, streaming yes, but also in a nightclub, sharing headphones with someone on the bus home, live music in all its forms etc...
Your point as I see it is:
You have the music. Then you have a listener. It's amazing when music reaches a listener and make a meaningful connection. How it gets there is secondary? The more we can make it available the more chances a connection will be made.
Definitely agree Keith
I occasionally buy CDs still, mostly for my favourite artists releasing new music, but I rarely play them (don’t have the means here at the moment anyway).
I don’t think I’ll ever stop buying CDs entirely- old collecting habits die hard and I love leafing through the liner notes, but streaming really opened up my world. I listen to much more music, and more different kinds of music, than I ever did.
This could almost have been written by me. Except add in something about vinyl!
There is something special about the way vinyl sounds that you just can’t describe. If there’s something I like and it’s on vinyl, I try to buy it. Whether it’s an older scratchy, popping record from days gone by or a fresh pressing, it always puts a smile on my face and a tap in my step. CDs are also something that keeps that nostalgia alive, although I rarely buy them (unless they are to support local artists). While there’s convenience in streaming, it lacks a certain personal experience somehow. It feels ‘too easy’ all too often.
I’d love to hear a JM album on wax. Definitely not the first (or last) time I’ll put that wish into the universe
Some people talk about vinyl like they talk about their first love, like there's something there almost beyond the realm of understanding. Thrilled that you've found that. it's beautiful.
As I said in reply to someone below, would love to get all my albums on vinyl. The main things stopping me are:
1) not knowing how much demand there actually is (fear of losing a bunch of money I need for other things).
2) the work it takes to lay out the artwork in a way that meets my standards. The audio too of course.
3) the upfront cost.
When I do it, it'll be because I've found solutions to those three things.
Have all your CDs Jake, kindly signed by you at gigs and looking forward to getting your new music in the same format.
Thanks Derek!
Yes we still do . Bought CD this week .
Thank you Sarah!
I used to buy at least a CD a week for donkey’s years but confess to having bought very few in recent years- mostly from artists directly at gigs (like from your good self in Durham along with a famously loss-making teatowel of course). I have kind of weaned myself off the need to own the physical items, and whilst I have my reservations about Spotify and other streaming corporate giants, I do love the way you can go down rabbit holes of “if you like this, try this too” and discover really good stuff new to you that there’s no way you’d have found otherwise.
The "if you like this, try this too" is a huge one.
I've had 7.5 million listens of Ghostess on Soundcloud. Most of those people would never have heard it without that idea.
Lots more changes to come in the future I think, what matters is that magic connection between music and listener. Can we find ways to maintain / nurture that?
Nope. Far too inaccessible. I will buy digital versions from Bandcamp etc to support artists, but if they haven't also released them on streaming platforms they'll get listened to once and then abandoned; the lack of convenience via streaming drives them to never become regular listening.
I hear that Alex, and love the honesty. You seem to be in a minority here, but a majority most other places. As much as I love physical, I'd be a bit lost without being able to stream too. Choosing a song anywhere at any time. Listening on one device and being reminded of it on another... asking for anything on a smart speaker. It's still got some big flaws though I think, plenty more versions of the idea to come.
We buy cds or vinyl.
Cd.s all the way. .... I mean how do you gift a stream as a Christmas or birthday present .
I still buy albums and singles rather than stream. I have decided to do this more recently as I realised I was ripping the music and exclusively playing it from a device rather than a CD player. The thing I miss is having the sleeve notes to hand. Could you provide a file with the sleeve notes if you don’t already?
Absolutely Catherine. What sleeve notes would you like to see? I could send them to you.
Funnily enough, all of your albums are on CD with all the sleeve notes! But thanks for the offer!
Like many others here, I tend to like to own things physically as well, be that CDs, blu rays, video games, etc. I do stream a lot of content as well, but my preference is usually to try and (quite selectively) own copies of the media I really enjoy, and preferably in a way in which I can put it on the shelf, though I do buy digital music from Bandcamp and the like too.
There are many pros to owning it, not least of which is some of the stuff I listen to simply isn't on streaming services, or has been in the past, and then got removed due to licensing etc, and that makes me conscious of it. It's nice to know I'll still listen to stuff I like in decades to come, without a reliance on a third party.
If it's an artist I'm unlikely to see live, I'll tend to buy from Amazon as they often give you the disc as well as adding the album to your Amazon Music account, giving the best of both worlds. But if I am planning to see the band live, I tend to hold off buying that physical until the gig. So I'll tend to listen to the album through other means if I've got a gig booked, and then try to buy the album direct from the band, as I know the percentage the band themselves get can be massively different in some cases.
Love how much thought goes into this Cormac. What is it worth to keep that connection with the music we love, priceless.
There are some records / songs that if faced with being threatened with them being wiped off the face of the earth unless I paid some enormous sum I would immediately empty my (admittedly modest) account. Isn't that strange considering I can listen to them for £0.0006 a pop?
I think sometimes part of it is about supporting a band as well, or having something that doesn't feel quite so disposable. I could have listened to the latest Tool album for a fraction of a percent of a £3.99 a month Amazon Music subscription (your £0.0006 figure is probably about right), but instead I spent out almost £80 on their latest CD. That's a fairly extreme example, but I don't have any regrets about having something really collectable from a band I love sat on my shelf. In another example closer to the topic, my wife and I each have a copy of that limited run CD you did where you hand drew different artwork for each and every one of 125 discs a decade or so ago. We love those and have taken great care of them. Granted, most examples aren't that extreme, but I somehow also place more value on a fairly bog standard £12 disc as well, over spending the equivalent on a bunch of MP3s that sit on my hard drive. Somehow those MP3s feel like something I could have feasibly streamed for almost free, or (cough, cough) downloaded from less savoury sources completely free, but professionally manufactured physical media is something of quality, which can't just be streamed or pirated, but has a visceral quality to it which many people value.
Neil Young a case in point here of course now - if you're a Spotify user as I am (though as have about 6 of his CDs and 1 vinyl still able to listen to my favourites :-)
I always had records from when I was old enough to afford them. Love them. Was a very late adopter of CDs (like about '96!). Then shops stopped selling them. I remember Kiss From a Rose.. that I had to order.. being the last one I walked into a record shop for. The 90s saw a flooding of CDs.. what with all that britpop... but for the last 10 years or so, it's never been easier to buy vinyl again.. and it's always my preferred way to listen to a record.
I think it's neat... the old albums... designed as two sides... something melodic or poignant to finish side 1.. then you're back to upbeat for the start of side 2. Where do you put the best tracks? How every artist treated this problem, was something they had to think about.. and I think that partially disappeared with CDs.. and potentially completely now with streaming and playlists.
Short answer.. If it's a great album.. then I'd love to have it on vinyl. I just love taking the thing out of a sleeve, the whole process.. the large image on the cover.. having to get of your bum to flip the thing (but then I'm a generation that was forever getting up and down to change the tv channel because we didn't have a remote... so I don't mind the intrusion ).
It would be great if you make a vinyl record and I would definitely buy. Have to be signed of course though! :0).
side anecdote... actually bought my first CASSETTE TAPE in decades last year! Came as a bundle with an LP and a CD when Del Amitri released their first album in 20 years..... No regrets....
So much history and memories tied up in records for so many people. I have my mum and dad's old vinyl collection and it tells such a story.
It's not quite the same sense of wonder running your fingers over a USB stick now, is it? I love that I can play the same albums to my daughter I listened to with my Granny - the exact same physical media from 45 years ago... All Aboard! (A probably K-tel collection of children's classics) a Disney record, that has pictures from the films the songs come from.. but also Oliver!, Sound of Music, My Fair Lady. We even watched Calamity Jane.. and then I went and bought the vinyl of that on Discogs.. I've put that on so much for her, but glad to see her learning the words just like her Dad used to.... :0).
I hope you dig into your Mum & Dad's collection to find some gems to play your daughter... ! Mind you.. she's probably playing the guitar already..... ;0)
I’m just pondering on a scenario in which I can buy your records on vinyl. Because I would. And be a hero.
one day Theo... one day. honestly if someone laid out all the artwork properly and I just had to pay for it I would!
CDs and occasionally vinyl. Hardly ever stream and refuse to use Spotify. Bandcamp, artist’s websites or independent record shops
Same here Simon, though Spotify account due to my girls!
I’m a big fan of CDs but only if it’s the full works. I’m talking beautiful art, lyric booklet, limited edition, Matt finish cardboard, Polaroid from the studio session … not asking for much ;)
Bandcamps my favourite place to shop.
Appreciate your consideration of the environment in this :) no shrink wrapping would be ideal
Could you do a pre-order/kickstarter to help you make the right quantities?
Also yes... it would be amazing to have magic future vision and know how many copies you will sell before you press up. I'm generally cautious with numbers, always better to re-press cos you've sold out than be left with a million boxes no one wants!
Well... after that post I'm clearly gonna have to up my game for my next album!
Hey,
I still buy cds, there are particular artists I like to have on cd (you are one of them) BUT I rarely listen to cds. I mostly listen to music on my Alexa or phone in the car.
I get it Paula. Streaming is so convenient, and will only get more so for lots of people. Partly because they know the more convenient they make it the more money they can make out of us! I think listening to CDs will require more of a conscious effort as time goes on. Maybe that could be part of the reward too?
Yep, I'll buy vinyl of albums that are particularly important to me or artists that I especially want to support (was looking forward to yours until the everything happened, obv). Bandcamp's been good for the latter because – presumably the artist can choose to? – offer the digital files along with the physical purchase, so I get my practical listening option along with the performative one. The only time I've bought a CD in the last 10+ years was because that was the easiest way to preorder the digital album.
Aside from Bandcamp I've bought vinyl at gigs, off eBay, and from honest-to-goodness real life record stores, although weirdly those have nearly all been in the US or Canada.
Love hearing stories like this Paul. Your passion for music and supporting artists comes through really strongly.
Haha thank you very much, although I'm mostly just doing what I can to make reparations for a studenthood of rife piracy.
I just remembered that Wheatus used to tour with a novelty USB stick (http://twitpic.com/6i7gmk) that was loaded with their entire back catalogue – the perfect synthesis of wanting something physical but needing something digital.
We're still buying cd's. At our age we don't understand streaming!
I think I get it, you run to keep up with all the technology changes and eventually just realise it's not worth running any more.
Almost every song ever recorded available at a moment's notice. That is kind of incredible though right?!
We're more than happy to buy the CDs. We like the fact that they're hard to loose or accidentally delete.
I like the collectability of real CDs. I like the flow of albums too.
Dowloads always feel more ephemeral.
Agree! Nothing more frustrating than a streaming service that messes with the albums original song running order.
You must have so many CDs Mike! A huge artist supporter.
Ephemeral... always in a bad way?
I buy at least one vinyl album a month if it’s an artist I really enjoy or if it’s a collectible addition to my collection. I’ve brought and collected vinyl for over 30 years. Normally I stream music via Spotify. Don’t buy cassettes as I don’t have a player. Sold or donated my CDs after burning to iTunes.
This is all helping me realise that it's not really about physical vs digital. We can enjoy all these different routes to the same thing, Spotify for the journey home, vinyl for the comfy chair, it's all good.
Never buy physical music. I kinda get vinyl for the collectibility. Don’t really get that with cds. Think it’s important to be honest given your making stuff.
Loving the honesty Alastair. I haven't bought a CD in a while, plenty of streaming and a little vinyl. There's something for everyone I guess?
A strong showing for physical music here!
I buy CDs where I like the artist (ie, yes in this case!), I still love CDs. I only stream where the music doesn’t really mean anything to me as I find it a soulless medium where you forget the music when it ticks off your dashboard whereas I revisit CDs year on year as they are in front of me, often rewarding memories.
And with a CD or vinyl I like opening them and finding a gig ticket had put in there :-) - though now those are sometimes starting to dry up as well!
It's so interesting how you see it as soulless. I do know what you mean. It encourages distraction, and the payment model makes each song seem disposable. Yet the music listening experience could be so similar if we're able to tune into that.
I've had some amazing moments discovering new music I now love on Spotify where I would maybe otherwise never heard it.
The other issue you need streaming for is some artists aren't 'anywhere' else e.g. Plested - no physical medium at all.
I agree, it definitely has its uses - I use streaming to listen to new artists, other artists I would also not necessarily always gravitate too when mood takes me or new releases but also as a way to hear singles from favourite artists prior to album release. BUT and it may just be me…streaming makes me forget songs quicker than the physical medium which I pick up and revisit. And like Graham below, I increasingly buy CDs direct from artists so that they receive the money but also to encourage that live experience we have all so sorely missed.
I only buy cds nowadays but also like to stream from Spotify. I would like to buy direct from artists especially those that could do with the support in the hope that more money goes directly to the artist. Ideally I would like to buy a new cd prior to seeing the artist play live. Looking forward to new cd and gigs.
I also buy CDs at gigs especially artists I haven't seen before. And vinyl if they have it. Feel bad if I then have to buy from a shop but do try and support independents
Graham you legend, buying direct is a huge way to support artists. Is the buying the new cd prior to a live show about knowing the songs in advance? I get that!
Yes but also about showing support to get you (and other artists) out playing live.
I prefer to buy physical music (CD). You listen in the order the artist intended and can read about who the musicians are and lyrics etc. This I admit means I listen less as it depends what equipment I have set up if any, so the car is one place I can hear and sing along to your music. X
The equipment is a big one I think. They don't make cars with CD players any more, it won't be long before it's rare. People will need the equipment in a room at home. Maybe that's part of the fun?
That would be a shame. They’ll be back though just like vinyl, so I won’t be getting rid. To me the important thing is the credits - I don’t know how much info you get now with streaming but it’s important to me. If you need decent speakers to listen to streamed music then you may as well have a CD player attached, as well as a turntable. I think streaming will kill off the album format as we know it - I don’t know if musicians would prefer to release a constant stream of tracks one by one or still have the excitement and fanfare of an album release?
I got chatting to you recently about vinyl in Gloucester! So I believe the right kind of 12" album is special, worth buying and keeping to play; especially double albums ie four sides of a single album, with a long album of 16+ tracks being the most appealing format to me. Niche artists have signed their own vinyl I own which makes it special and different to just simply streaming those same songs. Coloured vinyl is a gimmick but if a limited edition then why not? Posters included are always a bonus too of course and another example of added value.
This was part of the thinking for hardback book-binding The Manual with lots of printed pages. Go big to make something special! Thanks Tom and was lovely to chat to you in Gloucester.
I buy CD’s in general and old vinyl (non-new release unless it’s been remastered). I try not to use Amazon or big box retailers when I can. I typically try to purchase at my indie store which is pretty large here in LA (Amoeba Records).
When you say non-new release, does that mean no new records by current artists? Or just no re-pressings of older albums?
New records by current artist. I guess it’s a bit involved. I’ve never bought a new release from a current artist on vinyl. All the vinyl I’ve purchased has been something of a calculated purchase. I spend a lot of time in my car (gigs, picking the wife up, etc). Vinyl purchases tend to be about knowing I’m going to want to listen to something at home. Vinyl costs more (both monetarily and via specific time). I can take a chance on a new album with a CD purchase. I’ve got a history of buying albums based off of very little knowledge but gut feeling but vinyl is in that higher tier of purchasing because of the cost. Just about every vinyl I own I cherish both it and the listen of it whereas I have some CD’s I’ve literally forgotten about.
I don’t tend to go the streaming route 1) because I know what it means to support an artist, 2) I appreciate the actual ownership of a thing and 3) I love the whole production of the product (pics,liner notes, etc).
So interesting Aubrey, thanks for sharing that.
"Vinyl costs more (both monetarily and via specific time)" - this is so true.
Sometimes we enjoy something more when we've paid more for it. Like when people enjoy a gig more if they've paid to get in. If it's free they might not bother listening the same way or just talk to their mates instead.
You nailed it. I bought The Manual the only way I could after hearing “Watch Yourself” on a blog. Full price with UK shipping to the States was the only way. Worth it, it’s still on rotation quite often and it’s one of my go to’s when I want share something I know people most likely haven’t heard yet.
I treat myself and buy vinyl new and second hand probably at the same rate I did when it was the only option. And I love it. But also love the convenience of streaming. And pick up CDs at charity shops.
Love that Caroline. New vinyl can be expensive, so I get the treat part. I guess we can make space in life for all kinds of formats. It's all a chance to connect with music we love.
I’d bloody well buy yours xx
😂. That's an especially lovely compliment from a man who lives on a house boat. Admittedly it is a very thoughtfully designed and spacious house boat.
Plenty of room for Jake Morley CD’s, LP’s and on rarified occasions - his actual self! xx
haha. Well overdue and only myself to blame.
I buy vinyl where I can and CDs if I can’t.
Is it about having a collection? Or do you play them all the time too?
I like having a collection but it’s more about enjoying the process of putting a record (or CD). It’s less instant than streaming it from my phone and feels indulgent. A bit like grinding coffee beans. The extra effort is rewarding.
Love that Andy. I'm with you there.
Yes I do still buy phyiscal cds, most weeks of the year, don`t buy vinyl anymore.
That's amazing Brian.
Where do you buy them? At gigs? Online?
Most are purchased online, some at gigs as well, but I mostly buy direct from the artist and bandcamp.
Personally I've kind of moved away from it.
But I've almost never put on a vinyl record and regretted it.